Ex-DUB trick being monitored/closed - be aware

As I say, IANAL...

Now I'm intrigued! What could MrsD have packed three cases totalling 89KG?

Four cases, don't let her know we could have had six: and full of clothes and more clothes.
There is no such thing as bad weather, only having the wrong clothes. And yes some of the clothes were not worn even once on holiday, but what if???

Dick D

Oh dear - I certainly suffer from the "What If " syndrome !!!

Now I'm intrigued! What could MrsD have packed three cases totalling 89KG?

Four cases, don't let her know we could have had six: and full of clothes and more clothes.
There is no such thing as bad weather, only having the wrong clothes. And yes some of the clothes were not worn even once on holiday, but what if???

Dick D

No matter how much I try to pack "light", it's just impossible. I use so many specialist toiletries, hair care products and make up that the prospect of only using a carry on allowance fills me with acute fear. I'm just too high maintenance But my OH also travels with his art supplies so he can keep up with work while away from home, and they weigh a lot, too. Generally, though, we manage to keep this to two 23kg bags. With the exception of Tokyo, where we bought so much stuff that we had to check in four...

With our trip next week I'm also having to bring an extra suitcase JUST for the gifts we have for people (gifts for toddlers are always made of plastic or wood and are GIANT... they take up a huge amount of space!)

No matter how much I try to pack "light", it's just impossible. I use so many specialist toiletries, hair care products and make up that the prospect of only using a carry on allowance fills me with acute fear. I'm just too high maintenance

I'm one of the "cannot pack light" people too, toiletries, hair care, make up. And then the "what if". Even then, the very item that is essential for the "what if" that has happened, is invariably the item I didn't pack.

I'm packing already, or at least piling up items, for our NY trip in two weeks (to see family) and it's looking like an extra suitcase just for the items they've requested!

Dividing my time between the UK and US, I have two sets of pretty much everything (including my OH... just kidding ).

I honestly can't remember the last time I checked a bag!

I've taken a few Ex-EU trips this year to get BA Gold, always booking the final sector either the next day or from a different airport, so never had a problem with ensuring my luggage only gets checked through to London.

I am flying BA SFO-LHR in August and have my flight back to DUB from LCY....

....do you think this will be okay as its a different airport?

Absolutely fine as far as luggage is concerned. Bags cannot be checked through if your itinerary involves transferring between airports in the UK.

The only potential issue is if both legs of the return journey are with BA, and you have a BAEC account, they might impose sanctions if they do an audit and notice you didn't fly the final leg to DUB. It's unlikely but apparently it can happen as kraken's post upthread makes clear.

As above, to avoid being caught, don't book the entire itinerary on one airline (especially BA). If you use VS for the transatlantic legs, then use BA / Aer Lingus / KLM [as appropriate] for the first leg that you must use & the last leg that you are going to ditch. Also involve a change of airport on arrival back in the UK / an overnight stop to take advantage of the "under 24hrs = a transfer flight" rule & make short-checking of bags a necessity.

Given the commercial animosity between BA & Virgin, BA are not going to tell Virgin that you did not turn up for the final flight - they will just be happy that Virgin lost out on the full fare they could have charged if you'd just booked UK-Wherever-UK return.

Given the commercial animosity between BA & Virgin, BA are not going to tell Virgin that you did not turn up for the final flight - they will just be happy that Virgin lost out on the full fare they could have charged if you'd just booked UK-Wherever-UK return.

That's actually a very good point. Do BA really care as I assume they will charge Virgin the cost of the DUB flights regardless. In my case I booked through Expedia, but the credit card transaction shows the money being paid for the fare directly to Virgin Atlantic. If we then miss our final LHR-DUB leg, which is on BA, how are Virgin to know unless informed by BA? I can't even envisage any scenario in which BA would feel the need to tell Virgin that a passenger failed to show for a BA flight.

I don't have any BAEC account and have no intention of creating one. I just keep cursing myself for not being aware enough to schedule the final leg on the following morning or from another airport. I just seems that the airlines are more concerned about getting the luggage through to the final destination than they are about the passenger! It's particularly annoying when they can't even always manage that (memories of Air France failing to transfer one case correctly on a CDG connection on route from ATL to LHR).

What about if I wanted to fly to Dublin but leave the cases in storage at Heathrow in order to take advantage of a hand baggage-only fare (as we are doing for the positioning flight before the first leg)?

Yes you can leave your luggage in storage at LHR while you nip over to DUB and back. It costs £10 per item though, which is usually the saving you make on a BA HBO fare so in fact there's no actual saving!

Also remember if you leave your luggage in storage you couldn't use Flight Connections and stay airside at LHR - you'd have to go landside, make your own way from T5 to T3, collect your luggage then check in with VS as normal. But that may have been your plan anyway, in which case no problem.

[Darren Wheeler]

I used the Excess Baggage Company in T3 on my ex-AMS flight. The BA flight arrived in T5 and not having to drag a bag backwards and forwards made the hop so much easier.

We're looking at using the Excess Baggage Company in T5. It's next to the domestic arrivals, so should be convenient when we arrive from DUB. Plan is to collect the cases and take Heathrow Express to T3 and VS UC check-in/fast-track security. Leaving the cases at T5 means we can go straight there (from the car park) for the initial positioning flight and not have to go via T3.

>>> How VS (or any airline) can say this is fraud though is just ridiculous!!!

"fraud" is too strong a word for it; remember these rates are aimed to "encourage" Irish travellers to head east first, before going west, and to use VS or BA or whoever, rather than use a "more direct" flight. I guess the airlines would try to enforce that you can only buy these if you live in Ireland and have an Irish credit card billing address but this is not enforceable in the EU.

Bottom line: it is in their T&C's which you accept when you buy the ticket, and these are the games that then get played...

In a way, we've been here before.

Remember this guy?

Is there any way the airlines can enforce this though? When you don't turn up for the last flight, you've already "done a runner" so it's not like they have you trapped at a station ticket barrier like in the article linked above.

I am guessing the airlines would have to change their conditions of carriage to state that if you do not fly all ticketed sectors, then they reserve the right to charge your card with the fare difference. What if the card you paid for the ticket with is no longer valid? What if you have moved from the address you were at when you booked the fare? There is no way they can get you then.

It's going to be very hard for the airlines to close this loophole - especially where people ensure a change of airport / overnight stay before the last sector.

I think the issue is that it's hard for airlines to close the loophole for one-offs, but extremely easy for them to ban repeat 'offenders' (or just cancel their mileage accounts).

They wouldn't even need to go to court, I think, as I believe the miles in anyone's mileage account always remain property of the airline.

[Darren Wheeler]

I suppose the ultimate way to close it would be for an airline to decline any future bookings from that individual, although it's sledgehammer meets nut scenario. I can see them doing it if it means a flight is delayed due to finding and offloading bags etc. especially if it pushes the flight over the EU261/2004 time.

Short-Checking also creates the exact problem people complain about in the form of over-selling flights.

@Kraken - indeed. But as your friend discovered, they can impose sanctions on frequent flyers who, as savvy travellers, are most likely to be taking advantage of the ex-EU trick and who, as avid miles collectors and/or status hunters, might just be put off by the threat of having their account closed (which an airline can do at any time for no reason whatsoever).

And while you're right in saying it would be hard to pursue individual travellers for the difference in fare, it would be very easy to charge the travel agent which - in most cases - sold the ticket.

And, of course, they can take smaller steps to put people off buying ex-EU fares like, as we've seen, refusing to short check bags or charging for the privilege.

At the end of the day only a tiny proportion of long haul passengers are taking advantage of the ex-EU loophole so in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge problem. And it's not in the airlines' interest to remove the fares anomaly so what I suspect we'll see is them making a few threatening noises and making life a bit harder for passengers who take advantage, rather than closing the loophole altogether.

[mitchja]

I suppose another way round this is to actually fly the last leg of the ZEUR flight and then just book a separate flight home from outside the EU.

That's what I've just gone and booked. It was only £48 for an EI DUB>MAN flight (and that includes the extra 25kg baggage fee). Cheaper doing that than paying the short-check bag fee.

Even with the extra flight, the money I've saved on my ZEUR fare to SFO still makes it worth my while to do this.

EI, BA & FR op from DUB to MAN, LPL, LBA & LHR (and probably others too) so there's plenty of options available.

Kraken it looks like they are enforcing it in a way by this report of charging a short check baggage fee. I've seen this on the BA flyer talk board too where someone was told they would have to pay to recheck their bags after getting the gifts / change of clothes / meeting papers(or whatever excuse they used) from the bags.

It can also take an age to get bags back if they have been through checked and you don't board the onward flight. Not a punishment but a consequence of the process.

Accounts can be audited (so temp loss of miles so you can't book any redemptions) and even closed for a perceived breach of the t&cs

Not going to happen to every body but make a habit of it and you'll attract attention.

The airlines are obviously onto the 'misuse'* of ex-Europe fares by some people. They can't or won't get rid of them completely but they can make it harder for people to drop the last leg. It's only a small number of passengers in the scheme of things but large enough for them to start to close loopholes and make the savings lower which may put some off.


* I know some people have called it fraud or abuse but I won't go as far as that. It's not illegal.

The airlines might not like it, but what Ts & Cs does it actually break?

If I buy a piece of electronics, I compare prices and buy from the cheapest outlet that will give me an acceptable level of service.

By using ex-EU fairs, aren't consumers just finding the best deal for themselves?

Ok short checking of bags etc may be a problem, but you can ensure an overnight prior to last leg or actually take the last leg - what's the probblem that airlines perceive here other than reduced revenue?

Couldn't an airline be accused of anti-competitive behaviour?

Most airlines specifically prohibit the practice now, so it's not really a question of fraud etc, just of breaking the T&C under which your ticket was purchased. The wording for DL, for example is:

Delta specifically prohibits the practices commonly known as: [...]
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing - The issuance, purchase or usage of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.

Delta website says in their prohibited practices section - violation of contract of carriage - use of a fare for travel beyond your intended destination or from a point before your intended origin