Removal of Dedicated PE Cabin Crew

Have read on Flyertalk that VS is cutting the 2 dedicated cabin crew from the PE cabin, so that service will be shared with the Economy cabin.

The overall numbers of crew on the aircraft will also be reduced.

Nice 'enhancement' VS...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/virgin-a ... on-pe.html

13 crew members is quite low for a Boeing 747. BA have 14 on a 747 after cutting 1/2 crew members nearly six years ago.

Whilst I don't fly PE, this is a definite reduction in service. Almost going back to the days when PE food was just the same as Economy - but you were served first to ensure PE passengers got their first choice of meal.

In terms of crew numbers, I think the only legal requirement is 1 crew member per 50 passengers. All doors have to be manned (crew member sat in the jump-seat next to the door) for takeoff & landing. There are 12 doors on the 747 / 8 doors on the Dreamliner, so the reduced crew levels of 13 & 9 (respectively) are perfectly legal.

What is the betting that the Upper Class heavy LHR routes will not see this staffing reduction to keep the high paying J business passengers happy? If Virgin decide to put the new crewing levels onto routes like MCO, at the height of high season in school holidays, then they are shooting themselves in the foot there too. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out / on which routes.

A poster on the FT thread also talks about "streamlining the rank structure on board" which I've been told means merging the cabin crew and senior cabin crew ranks.

I've also been told afternoon tea service in UC, on flights that serve it, is ending which means there'll be no formal second meal service. Instead passengers will be offered a range of dishes they can choose from whenever they want (ie the graze menu?).

If true it all rather flies in the face of the promise by VS when it announced 500 back office job cuts earlier in the summer that customer service wouldn't be impacted. Can't help thinking Delta are behind this somehow ...

As the 747 is finishing next February it may adjustments in advance of that. I do not think any of the other planes hold as many pax as the 747 ?

[mitchja]

As the 747 is finishing next February it may adjustments in advance of that. I do not think any of the other planes hold as many pax as the 747 ?

It's only the LHR 744's that are going though. The LGW 744 config has a total of 455 pax compared to the LHR 744 config of just 386 pax as well.

The crew reductions are at the trial stage on certain routes (according to a FSM I was chatting to on a recent flight). That and the removal of the higher cabin crew rates / banding and not allowing any part time cabin crew contracts any more seem to be another attempt to smash the joy out of flying.
You can bet that big D are trying to push this through, many US travellers on VS for the first time can't believe how good the service is at the moment!
Lets go back 10 years to Lobster salads, decent champers and the IFBT!
How the world has changed, although if all that was still on board I very much doubt VS would be flying anywhere!

So basically they've pushed out a massive ITV advertising campaign to hype up the brand, and then slashed away at the key customer facing people who represent the brand in the sky. Bright thinking... very BA-esque.

To be fair the ITV series would have been commissioned well over a year ago and VS would have had no say in its scheduling.

But yes, it's unfortunate. I can only assume Craig Kreeger is under intense pressure from Atlanta to deliver a bigger profit and to achieve it he's had to make cuts to customer-facing staff.

It is indeed BA-esque. Particularly given BA is currently imposing some fairly brutal changes on its LGW crew. Trouble is BA's delivering increased profits and sales and its customers keep coming despite constantly chipping away at the quality of its product and massively devaluing its FF programme. That fact will not be lost on Delta.

So basically they've pushed out a massive ITV advertising campaign to hype up the brand, and then slashed away at the key customer facing people who represent the brand in the sky. Bright thinking... very BA-esque.

Frankly now a loyal BA flyer now, and not looking like I was going back very much soon. Last time I looked at upgradable economy tickets to get rid of the 250K VS miles, I found they had jumped in price and I thought "Why not fly BA from Dublin instead. It's same price as upgraded VS, they don't skimp on the booze onboard and a few of those and I've got my 2 for 1 voucher loaded up and ready to go".

If BA separated their lounges into long haul and short haul ,allowing them to do a decent lounge for long haul closer to virgin, I'd be done with Virgin. Only memories of the Clubhouse keep me considering them....

Virgin are competing in a brutal market. There is no scope anymore to be 'special'. Delta will be focussed only on profits. Expect more cuts, just like every other airline.

Many Virgin crew are joining Mixed Fleet at BA for the greater opportunities it offers.

Well, I do wonder. I've been looking at domestic Business class on Delta between San Diego and Reno, via Salt Lake City, one way, and 118 quid is the price sometime next summer. So Delta is pretty cheap and manages to do stuff. Sure its not Clubhouse or VS bar onboard, but they seem to being doing well out of things like that...

Anyway, I thought VS was back in profit again...

I've also been told afternoon tea service in UC, on flights that serve it, is ending which means there'll be no formal second meal service. Instead passengers will be offered a range of dishes they can choose from whenever they want (ie the graze menu?).

If (!) VS are removing the afternoon tea, this does seem odd at a time when BA have just improved their Afternoon Tea offering and introducing a second hot meal on West Coast USA flights.

A poster on the FT thread also talks about "streamlining the rank structure on board" which I've been told means merging the cabin crew and senior cabin crew ranks.

Sounds a bit like some of the difference between a BA WW CSD and MF CSM, the CSM has an actual role to play in the service (in club) as well as their overall managing the flight responsibilities.

I will be very interested to see how these "Changes" effect my Flights in Nov to Las vegas in upperclass. I have flew with Virgin for many years but if its true and there removing crew and getting rid of afternoon tea, its just yet more cost cutting and to be honest I am getting sick of it.

We will just need to see my trip report upon my return for the verdict.

Afternoon tea is still available along with hot items but you can have it whenever you like instead of a dedicated service an hour and a half before landing. They are just trial flights at the moment so doubtful will have been implemented by November

Afternoon tea is still available along with hot items but you can have it whenever you like instead of a dedicated service an hour and a half before landing. They are just trial flights at the moment so doubtful will have been implemented by November

I might be in a minority but have never had afternoon tea an chosen something off the menu instead when I want

Many customers want to fly in premium cabins but want to do so as cheaply as possible. Unfortunately luxury costs. The airlines have two options, either charge the premium prices (and therefore attract fewer paying customers) or cut services (and risk customers complaining about falling standards).

The middle eastern airlines eem to be blooming but is this because they have financial back-up outside of customer revenue to achieve this?

When i see how little some airline seats cost there days I do wonder how any airline can be running at profit. The revenue would barely cover fuel costs lets alone wages and all the other infrastructure that is required to run the service.

I also heard the 'senior' role was being abolished and all crew would now work in all cabins.

Even with buying in advance I would have thought the huge reduction in fuel prices would have started to make a difference to profits being one of the greatest items of expenditure for VA and there would not have been the need for the reduction in flight crew.

Even with buying in advance I would have thought the huge reduction in fuel prices would have started to make a difference to profits being one of the greatest items of expenditure for VA and there would not have been the need for the reduction in flight crew.

Every little helps improve the returns to shareholders.

Profits are needed to invest in new planes and refurbish existing ones.

Price of fuel is only one element of the cost of a ticket. And the fall in the price of crude does not automatically mean in a similar fall in the price of jet fuel.

If I was a PE customer and had paid twice as much as an economy passenger, I would be most unhappy. However on the other hand I can understand why Virgin/ Delta are looking at ways of cutting costs as the business model is unsustainable as providing a unique service is usually expensive. There is a reason most airlines don't so this and it's because most passengers just want to get to their destination in reasonable comfort, hassle free and for as little as possible. Having a great IFE used to be important but now most folk have tablets this has became less important over recent yrs, certaInly to me anyway
We will be flying Virgin next year only because we can't get Thomas Cook or Thomson flights on the day we are going and we didn't want to go via LGW or MAN. Having both of those airlines in recent years to Orlando I know we would have had more legroom in economy, plus we still got the meal, afternoon tea and decent entertainment. Flights were un-memorable but got us there on time and in comfort. Having said that we are looking forward to going on Virgin next year but mainly because we are on the upper deck of a 747 which we have never done before.