Removal of the CSM's? Redundancy in the air!!!!

Not sure if any of you were aware, or have more info than me about what's happening at the moment. A few of our CSM mates we've met on board are up for redundancy.
Apparently they are "restructuring" and getting rid of thier rank. At least 3 peeps I know are up for redundancy.
They don't know what's happening at the moment but are saying Delta is calling the shots!!!
I really feel for these guys cos they've made our flights the best ever!!! If they allow staff like these who have given over 10 years service to go it's a travesty in my eyes! The crew make virgin special and these crew deserve better!
I hope it ends well for them but if it doesn't I know I'll be looking elsewhere for my flights...clubhouse or no clubhouse. Onboard bar or no onboard bar!!! These guys have become friends and I don't like to see them worried for thier future!!!
Darren

I did see this last week on the VS board on Flyertalk with a link to a newspaper article in thw South China Morning Post about what was happening at the HKG base.

It appears to be similar to what BA are doing with their LGW based staff and stripping out a layer of staff and a restructuring *euphemism alert* of pay and conditions. The staff there voted in a ballot to have a formal ballot to take industrial action which I assume is going on at present.

As the letter shown in the SCMP article linked to above shows, VS want to get rid of the Cabin Service Supervisor (CSS) and Senior Cabin Crew (SCC) ranks. Flight Service Managers (FSM - the most senior cabin crew member) would presumably remain.

I'm led to believe SCCs have been given the option of demotion (with pay cut) or voluntary redundancy. As you can imagine the mood among CC is not good.

For passengers, fewer crew on board each flight will mean service is affected, whatever VS may say. UC crew, for instance, may have to do the second food service in PE meaning in UC the galley would close 90 mins before arrival.

I've no doubt Craig Kreeger is under orders from Atlanta to save more money. And it's horrible for the crew, who are already paid less than many of their industry colleagues yet who, as we know, are in the main deeply passionate about VS and giving excellent service. However, as pointed out above, VS is by no means alone. It's a race to the bottom.

I too have been made aware of this and am very wary. In addition to the comments made there will also be a reduction of crew on board as well as the rank demotions - with demotions will come forced pay cuts over time too. I know cabin crew staff are extremely concerned - and i've talked with some who reflect on what I think the big issue is here and that's Virgin's brand differentiation. Even in the worst times when VS was cutting back in every corner the crew remained the best brand ambassadors for the airline, during their training they emphasise the importance of spending time on customer interaction as one activity that builds the reputation the airline has for on board service, I fear the core strength of VS is being cut away and over time it will become just another US airline with red paint on the fuselage. With that, there becomes no incentive to fly VS over a cheaper airline so ultimately I think it is damaging rather than beneficial.

If you have a point of view, write to Craig Kreeger. I have.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but all crew will also become UK based.

A Service company is only as good as its staff.
Maybe in the future less staff & self service is the way to go.
Similar to the snacks wall in first class.

Not sure why you need so many ranks & layers of service staff.
Probably just an excuse to grade people for pay bands.

My understanding is no compulsory redundancies, instead it's an offer of demotion in rank and pay cut, which for some also means moving back down the plane or take Voluntary redundancy.
I did comment on another post this may well be the reason for some lack luster service.
I feel very sorry for the affected staff.

Dick D

If you have a point of view, write to Craig Kreeger. I have.

What's the best address to use?

Not sure if it's been mentioned but all crew will also become UK based.

including the HK crew ?

Not sure why you need so many ranks & layers of service staff.
Probably just an excuse to grade people for pay bands.

Well for starters it encourages staff loyalty by giving those at the bottom a decent career ladder to climb. At present cabin crew who stay with VS can, over time, progress to SCC, CSS, FSM and ultimately into senior management. Now they'll have just two on board ranks with far less chance of progression for the majority of crew, so less incentive to stay.

And secondly the current structure means - or should mean - better customer service in UC as only SCC members work there. In future with only one rank below FSM I suspect we'll see far more inconsistent service - a common complaint on BA.

Make no mistake - customer service will take a hit if this goes through. And not just because of poor morale - on average there'll be two fewer crew on each flight. Those who remain are more likely to be inexperienced, junior crew as they're making the senior ones choose between demotion or redundancy so many of their best crew will doubtless leave.

including the HK crew ?[/quote]

Yes that's how I understand it,

I am crew for Virgin. So I know what I'm talking about here.

There will be 3 ranks still onboard. FSM CSS and CC.

Some flights will only have 2 OBM's others will have 3. Depending on fleet. OBM is onboard manager FSM/CSS.

We will still have a small amount of crew based overseas however there will be no OBM's based overseas.

Voluntary redundancy has been offered to several ranks to help mitigate job losses.

Hopefully customer service won't be affected because crew 9/10 go out of their way to make sure our customers are happy. Virgin know this too.

Flight Service Managers (FSM) remain.
Economy Cabin Service Supervisors (CSS) remain on all fleets.
Upper Class CSS removed from A333 and B789.
Senior Cabin Crew (SCC) demoted to Cabin Crew (CC) but based on experience will still be expected to work in Upper. SCC pay frozen for 2 years and then reduced to CC rate from March 2018.
All International CSS and SCC from HKG, PVG and DEL are made redundant regardless of length of service. Only 2 International CC remain.
LOS crew based closed completely with all LOS International crew made redundant. LOS will only be flown by London based crew.
Voluntary Redundancy (VR) and part time options are being offered to London based FSM, CSS and SCC to mitigate any compulsory redundancy at the London base.
Reduction of 2 crew members on A333 and B789.
Reduction of 1 crew member on B747 and A346.
No "dedicated" Premium Economy crew on A333 and B789. Services will start at the front of W and run through to Y Class.

Can someone re-post Craig Keeper's email address please as I will contact him regarding this.

DEL is by far the route I fly most often- most UC passengers are ethnically Indian and I believe one reason why UC is so busy on this route is quality of service coupled with culturally sensitive crew. This is to an extent down to national crew. VS are shooting themselves in the foot if this is to be drastically reduced.

Presumably it's 2 international CC per flight.

But management decisions are difficult - do VS find themselves overstaffed as a result of route reductions and withdrawal of the 747 at LHR. If so would have prefer voluntary redundancy offered to all staff irrespective of place of employment. I suspect CC turnover is relatively high so this could be handled sensitively. And LR crew I understand were offered mainline positions - they must have little time with the company so again was this a sensible move?

Rather unfortunate news to hear both in terms of the crew and I am sure in terms of service. Removing CSS and SCC form your buisness product may save money in the short term but will I am sure lead to people looking elsewhere for tickets.
I have used nearly all my FC miles on a couple of G flights this year so will be bearing in mind the crew reduction in booking future flights.

You will still end up with former SCCs in Upper class, fully trained and experienced, however they will have a different job title... and a pay freeze/cut!
The 2 remaining International Cabin Crew (ICC) would most probably be evenly split, 1 in Upper and 1 in Economy for language/cultural needs of the passengers just my guess at this point but most probable outcome.

Intersting!
Have heard of some other possible changes in the pipeline for staff too, lots of reducing costs going on, reducing or removing staff access to lounges and reducing Staff Travel benefits... Lets see what the future holds!

The 2 remaining International Cabin Crew (ICC) would most probably be evenly split, 1 in Upper and 1 in Economy for language/cultural needs of the passengers just my guess at this point but most probable outcome.

On BA the ICC are 1 in Club and 1 in Y/Y+ (generally!) and are encouraged to do the first drinks service in First (First crew to cover the ICC while this happens).

Have been travelling to India for many years and I am sure I remember a time when BA had more "national crew" - remember Mumbai in 2001 when I remember many more. Colleagues who use BA have told me this hasn't been the case in recent times.

On Delhi VS have had almost a majority of national crew.

I would have thought this was attractive- lower costs of employment for national crew and higher empathy with largely ethnically Indian pax on these routes.

So why is a retrenchment to UK based crew popular- am I missing something?

All crew will be able to work in the upper class cabin regardless if they had been there 1 week or 10 years.

As for the SCC they have to take redundancy or take a forced demotion from earning 16300k down to around 13500 p.a.