Do Virgin Overbook PE & UC

Im sure this has been asked before, but do Virgin Over Book UC & PE.

Has this ever happened where you arrive at check in to find no seat in the better cabin if so what whats proceedure

Ive seen a Gold Flyer bumped to PE from UC

Yes they do.

Put "downgrade" into the Search feature and there are a fair few threads / specific messages on the the procedure and people's experience of same...

I'm reliably informed that they never overbook LGW 747 UC. Given that there are only 14 seats and these are leisure routes the chances of "no shows" are slim.

My recent flight from JFK-LHR had PE overbooked. It's either a blessing or a nightmare if you're caught up in it...!

Im sure this has been asked before, but do Virgin Over Book UC & PE.

Has this ever happened where you arrive at check in to find no seat in the better cabin if so what whats proceedure

Yes they do (as many other airlines also do). More often than not they get it right (no one bumped) as the the excess passengers don't turn up or change their flights but at time they do get it wrong.

The process is on the lines of

1. Ask for volunteers with an offer of cash and/or miles and rebooking on an alternative flight in the same cabin class and hopefully that sorts it out.

2. If that doesn't work they will bump passengers down a cabin (or two!) in which case they have set processes on who they will bump. For IDB there are statutory levels of payment under EU261 (not this is not compensation but a reimbursement of a % of the fare based on distance). They may also throw a few miles at the passenger but they are not required too.


Airlines over book because they know that a number of passengers will simply not turn up or change their flights at the last minute (imagine the stereotypical business man booking a full fare J whose meeting is changed at the last minute). They have complicated software to look at the level of over booking on each flight and each cabin. They are more likely to overbook on a route with several flights a day than a once a day flight.

New York is likely to have a higher level of over booking - see the busy businessman - than one where people are almost certain to travel - imagine the family going to MCO who have to be back because of work or the kids back to school.


You can avoid being downgraded or denied boarding by checking-in as early as possible (many airlines use the latest to check-in = first to downgrade / deny boarding) and being at the gate in good time.

[Neil]

Just to back up what has already been said, we were bumped from PE to E a couple of years ago due to the flight being over booked and us being the last to check in (OLCI wouldn't work for us). We got given economy exit row seats, and then under the EU regulations we claimed back 75% of the ticket. VS tried to get away with 600 euros per person but readily accepted my further claim when I challenged them on our return.

Neil going slightly OT but are you saying VS coughed up 75% of the full ticket cost?

We were lucky last year; we were flying to LAX in PE (booked using the Y to PE AMEX vouchers), and the PE cabin was overbooked. I think due to a combination of checking in early and our status (I was AU, and my OH was AG at the time) we were upgraded to the last two seats in Upper. I live in fear of it happening the other way around!

Has anyone ever had the experience of being booked in UC & been bumped down. Surely the airline would'nt over book the UC section - I can see why they may do so in the other cabins. But surely not when passengers are paying a very large premium to fly UC

[honey lamb]

All cabins get overbooked and airlines have complex algorithms to decide by how many and why - some of the overbooking may well be staff on standby, There are nearly always people who don't turn up - business men (and women) who have plans changed at the last minute; people who miss their flights because of unexpected traffic delays (my niece and her family experienced this recently when their car turned up late and the traffic was horrendous. Check-in closed just as they were being processed and they were allowed through but the couple behind them weren't!); people who get the dates of their flights wrong and finally people who even forget that they were due to fly that day (happened to me once but it was a Ryanair flight costing €5 so no great loss!)

Surely the airline would'nt over book the UC section - I can see why they may do so in the other cabins. But surely not when passengers are paying a very large premium to fly UC

But equally UC passengers - who are more likely to be business people on flexible tickets whose travel plans change at short notice - are probably more likely to no show so overbooking UC makes sense on the LHR business-heavy routes.

We were lucky last year; we were flying to LAX in PE (booked using the Y to PE AMEX vouchers), and the PE cabin was overbooked. I think due to a combination of checking in early and our status (I was AU, and my OH was AG at the time) we were upgraded to the last two seats in Upper. I live in fear of it happening the other way around!

Maybe thats their plan.... upgrade you this time, so they can downgrade you next time!

BA even overbook First. It happens all the time in all classes on all airlines

Apparently BAs new check in system is 'smart' so if a flight it overbooked and the airline thinks everyone will turn up, those on the cheapest tickets get told they can't check in and get put on standby to see if there are any no shows. Putting an end to making sure you don't check in last!

If VS have a problem they will often ask at check in to see if you're willing to go down. They normally make a pretty good mileage offer, ELR seat in Y and lounge use.

I bet they do, because finding volunteers to downgrade costs them a lot less than having to refund 75% of the fare for an involuntary downgrade.

In the US it's extremely common for airlines to appeal for volunteers to be bumped at the gate, with increasing offers of compensation as departure time gets closer. There, there's no equivalent of EU261/2004 so if you're forcibly bumped or downgraded you're at the mercy of the airline.

[honey lamb]

Are John has just reminded me that some years ago when flying from DXB, they were asking for volunteers to downgrade from UC and PE because of overselling. We were both Gold at the time and were surprised that we were asked but in any case could not have taken it because of an onward flight. On that particular flight some people were accommodated on jump seats.








some u

Are jump-seats certified for use by a "normal" passenger? (i.e. not an off-duty crew-member). I would have thought for takeoff and landing the person on a jump-seat nearest the door would have to be operating cabin crew for obvious safety reasons, should an emergency arise.

I too have seen an important passenger denied an UC seat on a LHR-JFK flight. I say "important" passenger as Virgin had let him board the flight, but he was sat at the bar whilst UC boarding was taking place. The FSM was then going round everyone in Upper Class trying to get a volunteer to downgrade to PE for "lots of air miles" - he got no takers. My sister went to the toilet by the bar and heard the said passenger being offered miles, a seat on the next flight, or make his own arrangements. By the time she came out of the toilet, he'd gone - obviously unhappy he could not sit in Upper.

I can't remember, but I think somewhere on the VS booking pages it asks if the purpose of your visit is business or leisure. I bet overbooking is low on routes where they can see families clearly booking way in advance and selecting leisure as the option, e.g. MCO. The odds of them no-showing are low. LHR-JFK on the other hand (as above) must have lots of no-shows - many of whom will be business people on fully flexible J fares, so the no-show costs the passenger nothing.

As to BA, it has been mentioned above they have a smart system that prioritises passengers based on Executive Club status / fare paid etc. This has been in place for years - can't remember exactly when (but it was before T5 opened) my parents were booked in CW to Calgary. They tried OLCI and the computer simply said no. I looked on ExpertFlyer and could see zeroes in all cabins, so the flight was full (& doubtless oversold). They got to LHR and when they got to the check-in desk & the passports / booking ref was seen, were greeted with "You're in World Traveller Plus today". (Not even a "sorry"). They ended up with a night in the Hilton at T4 courtesy of BA, £400 each and Club World seats the following day.

[Neil]

Neil going slightly OT but are you saying VS coughed up 75% of the full ticket cost?

Yes, as that is what the EU regulation states they have to do.

[mitchja]

I believe aircraft jump seats can be assigned to ordinary pax as long as they are fixed and have the approved safety restraints, though each airline will have their own policy regarding their use. The only jump seats that cannot be used by ordinary pax are flight deck jump seats (where fitted).

VS do also have a system in place to prioritise FC status and fare type in such situations, as a couple of years ago when flying back from IAD there was utter chaos on-board the A/C as around 12 pax had all been assigned the same seat numbers.

I was AU at the time and flying in Economy and had already received an op-up to Premium whilst sat in the CH along with a few other pax.

Turns out that Premium seat I had been upgraded to had already been allocated to another AU economy op-up pax. That pax consequently got a double op-up to Upper because they where on a higher economy fare compared to me.

The ground staff clearly explained this to both of us and everything was all good. I certainly had no complaints, as that was the only fair and proper way to deal with it.

Neil going slightly OT but are you saying VS coughed up 75% of the full ticket cost?

Yes, as that is what the EU regulation states they have to do.

I know it's what they are supposed to do but often airlines don't and try to just pay the fare difference between cabins or the cost of the sector you were downgraded on.

If you get 75% of the fare back, what would happen if for example, where you paid for upgradable economy fare (£800?), and upgraded to Upper using miles. Then getting bumped back down. What would you likely get then?

If you get 75% of the fare back, what would happen if for example, where you paid for upgradable economy fare (£800?), and upgraded to Upper using miles. Then getting bumped back down. What would you likely get then?

Ohhhh that's an interesting one!

I know it if it was a full miles ticket it would be 75% of the miles + 75% of the fees and taxes.

VS would certainly want to limit their liability to you so they might try to say we'll give you 75% of the miles and 75% of the extra fees but not anything of the base fare as you'd paid for economy already.

Not sure what a judge at MCOL would decide if you had to take it down that route if you were unhappy with what VS offered.

I'll be flying UC to MCO with my wife and infant later this year. Tickets were 100% mileage redemptions. Is there anything I can do to help prevent being downgraded, I'm sure were would be "easy targets" if they needed to downgrade someone?

I'll be flying UC to MCO with my wife and infant later this year. Tickets were 100% mileage redemptions. Is there anything I can do to help prevent being downgraded, I'm sure were would be "easy targets" if they needed to downgrade someone?

Well firstly, your on the MCO route which helps. A predominately leisure route so overbooking levels should be a lot lower. That said MCO is a big Convention City, so it does attract some business traffic, but the bread & butter is very much leisure based.

Check-in online at T-24, so Virgin know you are coming for the flight. Get to the airport in good time to drop bags, so again, Virgin know you are there. Other than that, there is not a lot you can do. But, as above, I have seen a passenger [presumably with some level of status] on a LHR-JFK flight refused an Upper Class seat when no-one would volunteer to downgrade.

I am sure Virgin will always seek volunteers for a downgrade (as they did on my LHR-JFK flight) offering air miles instead of the EU261 compensation. A bit like when we arrived just under 4hrs late in Orlando - plenty of mention of the food vouchers we could collect from the Virgin desk in Arrivals (as PE & Y had no hot food during the flight), not a mention of EU261. We claimed EU261 & they paid up.