New member, lots of questions, and some advice needed......

Hi all,
For background, I have been a Virgin Flying club member for about 4 years, the first 2-3 years were pretty much recreational, but the last 18 months have been manically busy (88 tier points in 17 months, with another 20 booked before the end of this calendar year) - all bar 5 of these points have been on VS metal, and the 5 that weren't were on a codeshare booked through VA.

Over the past 18 months, and especially when I hit gold for the first time (was silver for 2 years), I have noticed a few little step changes in the service towards me (generally good changes!), but overall the service on the flights seems to be in a bit of decline. I started researching this today, and came across Flyer Talk, and then found a link to a thread here called "Big changes", which may explain a few things!!! I had the opportunity to benchmark this recently, and flew Delta one on my return leg - and I have to say, I prefer the seat to the UC seats on most of the VS metal, more spacious, "proper" inseat power, more comfy bed, better amenity kit etc, but the service SUCKED!!! Really was put off by that, and it reinforced my loyalty to VS, even with the sense of degradation that is seemingly apparent. I was actually taken aback on a flight with VS recently - where I was booked into a middle seat in the centre of the cabin (due to a last minute change in booking), but at the gate, I got moved (without asking) to the front bulkhead window seat - thought it was a bit odd. The person next to me had the same thing - the cabin supervisor came over before take off and welcomed us both on board personally, thanked us for being VA regulars and gave us a bottle of bubbly as "an apology for not being able to get us into UC". So this reinforces my love for VS!

So, on my last flight, I was indulging in some idle chit chat with the check in guy whilst waiting for the baggage conveyor to start working, and he said to me that there were more changes coming to the flying club, but didn't have any details about it. Does anyone here know anything about this? He said the changes would be announced mid November. I am aware that the last set of changes were a tad controversial (higher costs in miles for upgrades, but more ticket classes upgradeable, so was a mixed bag). I'm just wondering whats in store for "us" next.

Last thing, an I suspect this may be controversial, but I am relatively new to regular flying (if you call 18months new. I do in the scheme of things), and I am interested in opinions on how to handle my relationship and loyalties. The majority (95%) of my distance work is in the US, with a small part in the EU. I am already VS Gold, got that in Feb this year, and have 48 TP's in the account, with about 20 more booked before renewal - and that could quite easily increase. I have been reading that a lot of people switch airlines at 60 TPs, and use another airline to get status elsewhere. This I suppose makes sense, If I were to go with BA for example, I have nearly 18 months of VS Gold as a buffer to get status with BA - which could help out with the small amount of EU travel I do. The only counter argument to this is, is that I fly to the US a lot (at least once a month, often twice), and I have also read that there is a level above Gold with VS, that can make the booking processes easier (which would make me very happy - as I spend too much time buggering about on the site, finding flights with decently priced availability, and upgrade capacity etc) - is that worth staying 100% loyal to VS for? Does anyone have a benchmark at what point that is achieved?

Sorry for the rabbling post - Just hard to get all my thoughts down in one hit!

Any thoughts/advice appreciated on the "should I stay loyal" thing, and I am going to watch with baited traps about the "November Changes"!!

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to V-Flyer!

In terms of changes to Flying Club, we already know the Combi fares are going. Nothing else has been announced but I do think there'll be more changes once VS finally abandon their prehistoric ticketing system and switch over to Delta's. That, IIRC, is supposed to be in November. What those changes will be and whether they'll be beneficial to us or not, who knows.

(Incidentally I've always thought it strange that you can earn gold without ever stepping foot on a VS flight, by flying with partner airlines. BA at least require a minimum number of flights on IAG metal to gain status, regardless of how many TPs above the threshold you've earned. I wouldn't be surprised if the threshold for earning gold rises - or even if VS abandon TPs altogether and switch to the 'status according to spend' system now adopted by DL and the other legacy US airlines.)

In terms of loyalty, once you hit 40 TP to renew gold, all you get are the Clubhouse passes and upgrade vouchers that kick in at 60 & 80 TP. There IS another level above gold, called UNIQ, but that's not triggered by earning TPs. It's offered, by invitation only, to people deemed very high value by VS, either because of their extremely frequent flying or because they're worth a lot of business or PR (company CEOs, celebrities etc).

So essentially no, if you renew gold very early in your membership year, there's not much incentive to stay loyal to VS and it may well be worth considering gaining elite status with someone else. If only to see how average BA are in comparison

I'm never going to have gold status. In fact I've just lost my silver and gone back to red.
However, if I was in your position I would definitely use more than one airline and try for status on both.
Much as I love Virgin I have found the recent hike in upgrade miles required had made me have a rethink of future plans.
And the recent change of crew numbers and roles is having an effect too.

Dick D

Thanks guys.
Couple of Q's.
"Combi-fares are going" - What is a combi-fare? I have no idea whether I make use of these or not.

And is BA Premium Economy (World Traveller Plus) at all comparable to VS PE? I am trying to work out if I can bear to get status with BA too - I got put off BA a long time ago with successive run of p**s poor experiences.

Thanks guys.
Couple of Q's.
"Combi-fares are going" - What is a combi-fare? I have no idea whether I make use of these or not.

Here is an explanation of combi fares (RIP)

And is BA Premium Economy (World Traveller Plus) at all comparable to VS PE? I am trying to work out if I can bear to get status with BA too - I got put off BA a long time ago with successive run of p**s poor experiences.

Not in my eyes. I once paid my hard earned cash to upgrade a business booked economy seat on BA to WT+. Mistake.

Thats a shame, I have used Combi fares (without realising thats what they were) a few times. Cest la vie.

Thanks guys.

And is BA Premium Economy (World Traveller Plus) at all comparable to VS PE? I am trying to work out if I can bear to get status with BA too - I got put off BA a long time ago with successive run of p**s poor experiences.

BA's Premium Economy has an emphasis on Economy, whereas VS Premium Economy has an emphasis on Premium.

BA service is still in a severe decline at the moment too, just take a look at the BA forum on Flyer Talk! VS is miles ahead in that department.

Take it from me, I split my travel between BA and VS - If you can stick to flying VS over BA... do it.

There is more to brand loyalty than meeting the minimum qualification and then moving on to the next.
Every flight is tracked and recorded for your lifetime flying with VS (or any airline for that matter).
There may not always be some immediate and obvious benefits but over the years you will amass a pattern of loyalty with them which will count in your favour.
For example - after a certain period of flying (currently 10 years) and a commutative number of TP (300 I think) you get lifetime gold.

Maybe one year you will be a few TP short of Gold. Your previous loyalty will very likely cause that to be waived and gold renewed.

To me there is no point having a bit of loyalty with a few brands - none of it will make your loyalty stand out.
Then there is the UNIQ level. It is not automatic by hitting a target but if you want to get noticed your past loyalty is all in the mix.

As for changed - I agree with the poster that the industry is moving towards dual qualifications: spend as well as TP (or miles). I also think there is room for a new official tier at - say 75TP - VS is one of the few that only have 3 published tiers.

And is BA Premium Economy (World Traveller Plus) at all comparable to VS PE? I am trying to work out if I can bear to get status with BA too - I got put off BA a long time ago with successive run of p**s poor experiences.

In my opinion, yes, WTP (especially on a new plane like the A380) is a comparable hard product. The service on VS is a little better than BA's, and the VS Club House is much nicer than the Galleries lounge however.

I try and maintain Gold status on both airlines, as BA's network in Europe (and low-cost miles redemptions in Europe) is important to me. Also, I do like BA's Club seating slightly better than VS (which is due for an overhaul)

In my opinion, yes, WTP (especially on a new plane like the A380) is a comparable hard product. The service on VS is a little better than BA's, and the VS Club House is much nicer than the Galleries lounge however.

You're underselling the clubhouse there. It's better than Galleries Club and Galleries First by a mile, and I still prefer it over the CCR .

I've only been to the CCR once, and seemed to be as few actual waiters around as GC ("flag the table clearers down if you want a champers"), we sat for 15 minutes before we frantically waived at the manager to question, not quite "who do you have to f**k to", get a drink around here...

And remember that if you are going from T3 on BA, like most of the eclectic destinations (Calgary, Phoenix, Denver, Vegas, Miami), there's no CCR. Not tried First lounge in T3 yet though...

In my experience, Flying Economy as a AU has been varied. About 1 in 3 flights have had some recognition (glass of champagne, priority meal taking, invite to the bar etc). I think the Clubhouse still makes it worthwhile and that is what keeps me going for Gold.

The gifts for hitting 60/80 TP seem a bit redundant for regular business travelers so I tend not to stretch for them. If it happens via partner TP, then its a plus. It does mean you get bonus points with friends and family who I end up giving the clubhouse passes and upgrades to

Its definitely easier to give 'small touch' benefits if there isn't a published list to adhere to but a couple of years back there was a concerted effort from all Cabin Crew to recognise AU flyers that great! However I have noticed that there hasn't been much recognition at all lately, across all cabins, where as it was quite common to have a small comment, like "Welcome back" or "I see you travel a lot with us". Not sure if anyone else has noticed this recently?

Just to focus on the PE vs. WTP question; they are really quite similar in terms of the seat; you get more space than in Y which is the "main thing" as far as I am concerned.

There are slight differences in terms of priority check in & boarding but to me the "hard product" is quite similar, which is what you'd expect given the BA & VS "competition".

To the wider "is it worth getting BA gold", I would say yes, as you can pre-book the best seats in Y as soon as you make the booking - and the "best seats" are blocked for golds to get. I think BA silver lets you do that 7 days in advance. I find this quite useful for my (small number) of Y short haul trips.

The new BA "buy on board" in Y has caused a bit of a storm on Flyertalk; I flew to Frankfurt on Sunday in Y and was given a free drink, and a choice of "one" from a basket with biscuits, crisps or a nut mix. The chap in front of me was told "sorry - you can only take one..." so using the BA lounges will mean you just stock up there instead...

The new BA "buy on board" in Y has caused a bit of a storm on Flyertalk; I flew to Frankfurt on Sunday in Y and was given a free drink, and a choice of "one" from a basket with biscuits, crisps or a nut mix. The chap in front of me was told "sorry - you can only take one..." so using the BA lounges will mean you just stock up there instead...

The free "food" and drink isn't gone until January the 11th.

Was it food or the booze which was restricted to one. I always thought you could easily get like 2 minatures on a BA flight typically (I'll be on the Frankfurt one at Christmas).

To the wider "is it worth getting BA gold", I would say yes, as you can pre-book the best seats in Y as soon as you make the booking - and the "best seats" are blocked for golds to get. I think BA silver lets you do that 7 days in advance. I find this quite useful for my (small number) of Y short haul trips.

BA Golds and Silver get free seat selection at the time of booking. Bronze gets it 7 days in advance. Blue at t-24 hours

There are some minor exceptions such as Silver and Bronze can't get free exit rows on long haul until t-24.

Also if you are on a hand baggage only fare then no matter your status you don't get a free seat choice

The new BA "buy on board" in Y has caused a bit of a storm on Flyertalk; I flew to Frankfurt on Sunday in Y and was given a free drink, and a choice of "one" from a basket with biscuits, crisps or a nut mix. The chap in front of me was told "sorry - you can only take one..." so using the BA lounges will mean you just stock up there instead...

The free "food" and drink isn't gone until January the 11th.

Was it food or the booze which was restricted to one. I always thought you could easily get like 2 minatures on a BA flight typically (I'll be on the Frankfurt one at Christmas).

It was just the snack, I got 2 vodka miniatures for my bloody mary without being asked...

It was just the snack, I got 2 vodka miniatures for my bloody mary without being asked...

And just to show how consistent BA can be, on the return flight, for the snack,we were asked "nuts, crisps, or biscuit" and they were handed over from the trolley. And only one miniature each.

And then later in the flight, the basket came round offering more snacks; if you took one they then gave you another 2 or 3!