Virgin and Flybe in the tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46834827

Confirmed but I can’t see any press releases yet on VS or Flybe Websites

https://www.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/me ... gions.html

Confirmed as being branded as VS!

Excellent news!

So VS gets back the EDI and ABZ routes it couldn’t make work with Little Red!

More importantly, though, it gets to protect its feeder traffic into MAN where its long-haul operation is under pressure from Thomas Cook.

I was just thinking how things have come full circle from the Little Red days!

It will be interesting to see how quick FlyBe drop Avios!

I wonder what enhancements they are going to make to the customer experience!

I wonder what enhancements they are going to make to the customer experience!

The less said about the customer "experience" on those Bombardier Dash 8's the better - they are awful. I bet the only thing that will change is the crew uniforms / a general re-brand to Virgin. Back in the Little Red days the flights were all operated by Aer Lingus metal, but in VS paint jobs & crew in VS uniform.

Providing the shareholders accepts the offer, this will give VS a badly needed domestic feed with some European routes thrown in. It will also allow them to develop a hub at MAN and get one up over Thomas Cook, particularly if it chooses to end the codeshare agreement it has in place with them. It makes no sense to feed both its own airline and that of a competitor out of MAN whom it competes with on some routes.

As the deal also includes Stobart Air, it'll be interesting to see what happens with Aer Lingus Regional which they operate. It'll be interesting to see IAG's reaction to a competitor operating its feeder flights into DUB!

I wonder what enhancements they are going to make to the customer experience!

The less said about the customer "experience" on those Bombardier Dash 8's the better - they are awful. I bet the only thing that will change is the crew uniforms / a general re-brand to Virgin. Back in the Little Red days the flights were all operated by Aer Lingus metal, but in VS paint jobs & crew in VS uniform.

Flybe are one of the world's biggest Dash 8 operators (specifically the Q400), so I can't see them being ditched right away, particularly given the other issues Virgin will need to get a grip of first before authorising large capex's on new aircraft. Besides the ATR-72 which Stobart Air operate, it's the only viable aircraft for a lot of the regional routes Flybe operate. They have some E175's and E195's, but the E195's are being ditched and there's only a handful of routes where the range/capacity of the E175's are needed. Let's see if they take the additional E175's that are due to be delivered this year.

So VS gets back the EDI and ABZ routes it couldn’t make work with Little Red!

Well, let's remember that the capacity on the A320's were 174 (give or take) and the Dash 8's are 78. So much less seats to fill, less fuel etc etc. Really not a comparison.

If anything, with the MAN and LHR hubs, I think VS will have learned from the past and can make a success of this.

It makes you wonder whether we’ll see Thomas Cook’s longhaul operation added to the VS group in due course (given that it is likely to be at a significant disadvantage to Vs at MAN and therefore likely to be exposed to be picked off by another).

I’m the short term, this should be great news for VS and it’s iperation at MAN. It should permit the expansion plans to be implemented faster than they otherwise could be - assuming all goes well.

From an LHR perspective it's going to be a bit of a pain for VS because they'll have domestic flights operating from T2 with long haul out of T3.

Since T3 does not have the facility to handle domestic flights there's no quick way to fix this.

For Little Red VS provided a bus to take connecting passengers directly from the plane at T2 to T3, which made the process pretty easy for domestic-international passengers. Unfortunately, it couldn’t operate the other way round so international-domestic passengers had to put up with the dubious joy of negotiating Flight Connections.

That’s by the by though. Heathrow is a bit player in this deal. Manchester is centre stage.

That’s by the by though. Heathrow is a bit player in this deal. Manchester is centre stage.

I'm not sure how inter-terminal connections work at MAN (whether they are easy or not) but I wonder if this would see Flybe join VS in Terminal 2 at Manchester to simplify transfers.

Wonder if BHX will lose routes... too close to LHR and MAN to "feed" into VS main services yet have a plethora of services into mainland Europe

That’s by the by though. Heathrow is a bit player in this deal. Manchester is centre stage.

I'm not sure how inter-terminal connections work at MAN (whether they are easy or not) but I wonder if this would see Flybe join VS in Terminal 2 at Manchester to simplify transfers.

I’d be staggered if VS and legacy BE don’t end up in terminal 2 at MAN and pretty quickly.

There is suddenly a fairly large incentive, and the opportunity, for VS and MAG to invest in the physical infrastructure at MAN to deliver what VS are looking for.

I’m not suggesting anything remotely like a new part of the terminal, but it looks like the Clubhouse (and a major one) should now be inevitable, and lerhals VS can arrange for their own pier, perhaps with USPC, to give them an major competitive advantage on TATL connectivity moving forwards.

I'm surprised that Delta has no shareholding in this new company. Cyrus Capital inclusion is interesting as they were an early backer in Virgin America. The Q400 is a lost cause Bombardier sold the programme at the end of last year. Stick with the Embraer's for now but long term replace them with the Airbus A220. I agree about building Manchester out as a true hub, get on the phone with Manchester Airport and secure one of the new T2 pier's for exclusive Virgin Atlantic use. The USPC project has gone quiet and was supposed to be in pier 2.
It will be interesting to see how the brand roles out Virgin Connect or Little Red?

It's going to be branded Virgin Atlantic.

[mitchja]

Full VS press release here

I wonder what it means for flights in and out of LCY to EDI or MAN. More LHR connections to EDI and even MUC would help me!

I’d imagine they’d eventually get rid of all dash 8s and move to an all jet operation. I wonder what they will do with all the non LHR and MAN routes (especially with Exeter being the current Flybe hub) and weather or not they’ll introduce some sort of business class- which could be one of the reason why little red failed.

I'm surprised that Delta has no shareholding in this new company.

Surely Delta own 49% of Virgin Atlantic Limited who in turn would own 30% of Connect Airways?

Wonder what this means for Flybe's franchises, Eastern and Blue Islands... assume the franchise will run it's course, can't see a reason for them not to continue.

https://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/flybe1/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=59&newsid=1223852

Flybe Group plc announces that today Flybe Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary, signed an agreement with Vueling Airlines S.A. (the "Agreement") to receive a total of £4,500,000 (four-and-a-half-million pounds) in respect of slots at London Gatwick Airport. The funds will be paid in two tranches, being receivable in the next few days in respect of slots to be used during the Summer Season in 2019 and for subsequent Summer Seasons. The remainder is due in June 2019 in respect of slots to be used during the Winter Season in 2019/20 and subsequent Winter Seasons.

I assume that’ll be the slots for the Newquay route which is moving to LHR? Don’t think Flybe fly anywhere else from LGW any more.

They don't, Newquay was a PSO style deal as they'd sold their other slots to EasyJet.

they’ll introduce some sort of business class- which could be one of the reason why little red failed.

I’ve used BA’s “Club Europe” four times in the last couple of months EDI to LON. Not for anything else than the extra baggage allowance when connecting on / from VS upper, and it’s been absolutely rammed every time so they’d be daft not to implement some sort of business class.

David

[mitchja]

Why does anyone need a business class seat for a flight that is < 1Hr though?

I doubt it will ever happen as it just doesn't make financial sense to waste cabin space on bigger seats / enhanced cabin services on small regional aircraft.

FlyBe's biggest A/C only seats a maximum of 118 passengers.

I don't know what FlyBE currently offer in terms of cabins but on Delta regional services, all they do is sell the front 4 bulkhead row seats as Comfort+ on their 50 seater regional CRJ aircraft. The seat itself is the same as every other seat on the A/C.