Virgin and Flybe in the tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...

CE on domestic flights is relatively new and really only exists because BA finally realised making someone who’d paid £3000+ for a long-haul F ticket sit in Economy for their domestic connections to/from LHR was a pretty poor show.

[mitchja]

What people also have to remember is FlyBE are a regional airline. BA (with the exception of BA CityFlyer) isn't, neither was Little Red.

Is there a need for short haul LC Carriers to offer a slightly higher fare with an increased baggage allowance, so that passengers using them to connect to Long Haul flights in premium cabins can take the extra baggage on feeder flights.

My Son is currently on a RTW trip but is limited in baggage by low allowances on a couple of short flights down under?

Why does anyone need a business class seat for a flight that is < 1Hr though?

I doubt it will ever happen as it just doesn't make financial sense to waste cabin space on bigger seats / enhanced cabin services on small regional aircraft.

FlyBe's biggest A/C only seats a maximum of 118 passengers.

I don't know what FlyBE currently offer in terms of cabins but on Delta regional services, all they do is sell the front 4 bulkhead row seats as Comfort+ on their 50 seater regional CRJ aircraft. The seat itself is the same as every other seat on the A/C.

Tier Points, extra airmiles for a start.
Extra baggage, Fastrak security and all the other things that come with it.

JER LGW is 35 minutes and often has 10 rows of Club Europe.

There could be a market for that in the UK. Jersey European was the first airline to have a domestic business class before it became the basket case it is today.

[mitchja]

Tier Points, extra airmiles for a start.
Extra baggage, Fastrak security and all the other things that come with it.

All of those can be determined by the fare code though and not necessarily the cabin or seat in exactly the same way higher fares codes in the same VS cabin earn more miles and TP's than others do or the way BA now sell CE fares on UK domestic flights.

You’re forgetting the bigger issue of how many TPs are we gonna get for FlyBe flights!

LR redemptions used to be a real steal too if I recall?

As I said earlier, the only reason I’ve now started using Club Europe from Edinburgh down to London to connect onto Virgin in Upper is to utilise the extra baggage allowance. Yes, the lounge is ok ( although the BA lounge in Edinburgh has to be one of the most souless places in the world )

When flying economy you have one bag at 23kg. If it’s 24kg that’s an extra £60. If you want another bag, that’s another £35 into Gatwick or £60 into Heathrow so if your flying upper and have two bags at around 25kg ( especially on the way home ) the extra costs can be £120 just to utilise some of your baggage allowance with Virgin

Club Europe fares aren’t that much difference between a normal economy fare plus your extra baggage.

There were 10 rows on yesterday’s flight up to Edinburgh and they were all full.

I can’t wait until the deals in place. It will open up huge amounts of options when using Virgin from London or Manchester. It’s just a pity it looks like they’ve sold slots at Gatwick recently. As long as they are at a resonable price. Driving to Manchester’s not too bad but the drive bad is awful

David

Tier Points, extra airmiles for a start.
Extra baggage, Fastrak security and all the other things that come with it.

All of those can be determined by the fare code though and not necessarily the cabin or seat in exactly the same way higher fares codes in the same VS cabin earn more miles and TP's than others do or the way BA now sell CE fares on UK domestic flights.

But if there is a market for CE in UK why not take advantage and offer the product?

All of those can be determined by the fare code though and not necessarily the cabin or seat in exactly the same way higher fares codes in the same VS cabin earn more miles and TP's than others do or the way BA now sell CE fares on UK domestic flights.

Just as well VS make it transparent and simple to quote and book the fare code you want online, without confusion or error...

Oh wait.....

I wonder if the new VS Regional will move across to Air4 - if I recall recently FlyBe were investing heavily in their back office systems - they are still useless though even compared with VS.

Stobart also have the fleet available to make this work for VS. All planes will be rebranded and refreshed within 2 years. I fully expect e190/195s operating from Edinburgh to Heathrow in VS colours with Espresso seats, some pink strip lighting and plum carpets by the end of the year. There will be a marked quick change in the schedules to cull poor routes and refocus on Manchester, Heathrow and Scotland. I can see BHX and Cardiff being affected by all this though... im also curious what VS do with the slots they have into City. A lot of synergy saves to be made but HUGE opportunity. Let’s just hope VS are in it for the long run...

I wouldn't be surprised to see changes to Flybe's network as early as April. Given that the long haul MAN's routes kick in in May. Be interesting to see if they stick to Flybe plan of getting rid of all the E195's by 2020. Flybe wanted a fleet of 50 Q400's by then, I personally believe that you can do more with the Embraer fleet especially now LHR and MAN will be the main focus.

Flight Global hits at it here
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cuts-likely-as-virgin-shapes-flybe-stobart-combinati-454957/

I wonder if the new VS Regional will move across to Air4 - if I recall recently FlyBe were investing heavily in their back office systems - they are still useless though even compared with VS.

Stobart also have the fleet available to make this work for VS. All planes will be rebranded and refreshed within 2 years. I fully expect e190/195s operating from Edinburgh to Heathrow in VS colours with Espresso seats, some pink strip lighting and plum carpets by the end of the year. There will be a marked quick change in the schedules to cull poor routes and refocus on Manchester, Heathrow and Scotland. I can see BHX and Cardiff being affected by all this though... im also curious what VS do with the slots they have into City. A lot of synergy saves to be made but HUGE opportunity. Let’s just hope VS are in it for the long run...

The E195's are going, though it wouldn't surprise me if the E175's are kept on, particularly if the routes that need the E175's range/capacity are retained. The E175's might be better for LHR-EDI/ABZ as they are able to fly faster than the Dash 8 Q400's, but mindful of the LF's during Little Red days they may yet be too big.

Speaking of colour schemes, I see G-JECP was unveiled in another brand refresh a few months ago. I'm guessing that will be one of the more short-lived liveries to grace the skies.

I wouldn't be surprised to see changes to Flybe's network as early as April. Given that the long haul MAN's routes kick in in May. Be interesting to see if they stick to Flybe plan of getting rid of all the E195's by 2020. Flybe wanted a fleet of 50 Q400's by then, I personally believe that you can do more with the Embraer fleet especially now LHR and MAN will be the main focus.

Flight Global hits at it here
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cuts-likely-as-virgin-shapes-flybe-stobart-combinati-454957/

I'd say the presence of the E195's in the fleet are part of the problem. They got rid of some a few years ago when they tried turning things around and most of them were parked up for a while. They were due to get many more Embraer's as the original order was big, but with the exception of 4 E175's that they seem to be committed to taking delivery of, the rest of that big order was cancelled.

Time has shown that they were probably not the right aircraft for Flybe's route network, but like I said there are other issues in play besides the type of aircraft in the fleet.

But if there is a market for CE in UK why not take advantage and offer the product?

To be honest, I don't think all of Flybe's routes can justify a Club Europe-style offering. I'd say it's a waste of time on shorter domestic routes such as Liverpool-Isle of Man where there's no time for the crew to do a trolley service before the plane is descending (they will sell you something if you want it, but it's a case of pushing the crew call button).

There is one thing not noted on here yet and was in the detail that London Southend Airport (SEN) has been grown by stobart over the past few years using E195/ERJ75 and have sustainably growing the airport attracting continued growth from EasyJet by proving using its own aircraft to show that’s its valuable and there’s is a profitable market and more recently starting in April this year Ryanair coming to Southend. The consortium has said that SEN will play a key part in their growth and with connections across Europe and great connections it means that is could feed its network and grow passenger numbers well. SEN has also proven in the last number of years to be number one airport for customer service and people’s choice including ontime performance winning them awards which the other game players already established haven’t achieved but is achievable for them if they tried. I think this is a great opportunity and will be looking forward to see what this brings to short haul / domestic routes.

But if there is a market for CE in UK why not take advantage and offer the product?

To be honest, I don't think all of Flybe's routes can justify a Club Europe-style offering. I'd say it's a waste of time on shorter domestic routes such as Liverpool-Isle of Man where there's no time for the crew to do a trolley service before the plane is descending (they will sell you something if you want it, but it's a case of pushing the crew call button).

But that's not unusual. A lot of American routes are Y only even though other routes support a business class product. I think Flybe could sell a business class on many routes. In fact, as their load factors are never 100% there's nothing to lose with having a Business class style cabin.

Aircraft refits will not happen overnight but they could try a bundled premium fare with all the soft perks - baggage, fast track, lounge, priority boarding and whatever can be served on board in the time available. Seat pitch and width on BE Q400s is minimal - one of those would surely have to improve...

But that's not unusual. A lot of American routes are Y only even though other routes support a business class product. I think Flybe could sell a business class on many routes. In fact, as their load factors are never 100% there's nothing to lose with having a Business class style cabin.

Maybe, but there's one major elephant in the room when it comes to offering Business Class on domestic flights: APD. I suspect an increased APD rate that's applicable to business fares will stifle demand.

It might be better to offer something along the lines that HokeyPokey suggested.

Regarding that APD, do you get charged extra if travelling BA Club Europe because I think remember that premium cabins are distinguished by seat pitch and not service?

But that's not unusual. A lot of American routes are Y only even though other routes support a business class product. I think Flybe could sell a business class on many routes. In fact, as their load factors are never 100% there's nothing to lose with having a Business class style cabin.

Maybe, but there's one major elephant in the room when it comes to offering Business Class on domestic flights: APD. I suspect an increased APD rate that's applicable to business fares will stifle demand.

It might be better to offer something along the lines that HokeyPokey suggested.

It hasn't with BA.

Looks like Flybe were closer to the brink that thought...

Flybe to stay in air as Virgin Atlantic-led group injects cash

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... _clipboard

Regarding that APD, do you get charged extra if travelling BA Club Europe because I think remember that premium cabins are distinguished by seat pitch and not service?

Yes. It's £13 in Y and £26 in J.

It hasn't with BA.

Maybe, but the key differences are that BA's domestic route network is to/from London which can probably sustain a Business Class-style service, particularly given that some passengers will be using these domestic flights connecting to/from long-haul flights where they might be flying WT+/Club World/First.

I'm not convinced that Flybe's route network can sustain a Business-style offering besides a handful of routes or those that go to/from London or places where they're known for "affluent" customers. I guess there's only one way to find out, but I can't see it being viable network-wide.

Looks like Flybe were closer to the brink that thought...

Flybe to stay in air as Virgin Atlantic-led group injects cash

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... _clipboard

Not helped by credit card companies withholding onto cash from CC bookings for fears Flybe might collapse (as the CC companies would then be liable to refund customers). It reminded me of the scenario that brought down Flyglobespan nearly 10 years ago, albeit in different circumstances.

Through restructuring, it also effectively bypassed the need for shareholders to accept the offer as Connect have bought the companies within the holding company, instead of the holding company itself.

More info here: https://www.headforpoints.com/2019/01/1 ... deal-done/

Let's see how long it takes before the new regime start to turn things around.

Actions to integrate Flybe into the Virgin Atlantic fold seem to be progressing. I've received an e-mail today from Avios saying that Flybe will cease to be an Avios partner from the end of April and encouraging people to either sign up to BA Executive Club or transfer their Avios to their existing BA EC account.

I wonder how long it will be before FC announce earning/redemption is available on Flybe?

We’ve some important news for you. Flybe will no longer be an Avios partner from the end of April 2019, but there are a number of options available to you before this happens. Please read the information below to find out your options and what to do next.
Your options and what to do next
Before 30 April 2019 you can spend your Avios on the wide range of reward flights, hotels, car hire and other travel experiences on avios.com.

If you want to spend your Avios with Flybe you can continue to do this on avios.com or part pay for a flight on flybe.com.

To keep your Avios, and to continue collecting, you may wish to follow these next steps before 30 April 2019.
Avios Step 1: Open a British Airways Executive Club account here.
Avios Step 2: Transfer your Avios from your account to your new British Airways Executive Club account. Transfer My Avios.
IMPORTANT: Your personal details must match on both accounts in order to transfer your Avios. If you are already a British Airways Executive Club Member you must transfer your Avios to your existing account. There is no need to open a new account.
Your existing flight and hotel bookings
Any existing Avios bookings, made with Flybe, or any new bookings you make before the end of April are not affected – even if you’re travelling after this date.

Vueling Club and AerClub members
Vueling Club and AerClub members will be unaffected by these changes and you can continue to collect and spend Avios as you do today.
Visit our FAQs to find out more about the changes.
Thank you for being a collector of Avios.
We hope you'll continue to enjoy the travel rewards available to you.

The colour scheme on Flybe's latest email is red and purple...!

Flybe crew have been advised that they will shortly have new uniform fittings