Thoughts on ticketing / reward seat erro

Hi.

So yesterday I made a new booking using points.
MAN-MCO, MCO-LHR in UC.
Later on, I saw TPA-LHR leaving the day earlier was 110k points cheaper.
So I spoke to an agent on chat who after 30 minutes said “no availability “ and then ended the chat.
Online it was showing “3 seats left at this price”.

So I called up and got through to UK agent whom put the flight into my booking but said I needed to pay additional 105k points per person. I noticed the points had increased after she added the flight into booking/holding seats. So I told her to unrelease and the points price went back down and showed again “3 left at this price”. All she could say was “this is how it goes sometimes, some you win some you lose and hung up”.

So I called back and spoke to another UK agent who was really helpful and even he noticed the error after checking the website / and app. So he put me on hold and he spoke to the ticketing team. He came back 15 minutes later and said that there was only one seat available at the price you’re seeing and that’s why it’s asking for additional points. He said even if you checked out, your booking most likely wouldn’t go through.
I then said “if I make this booking and it goes through will the booking be valid”. He did say yes.
Lo and behold it went through ok and it’s been ticketed. He cancelled my other booking free of charge as was within 24 hours of booking.

Question 1 - my booking has been confirmed and ticketed, so am I right in thinking that even if the price online available to purchase was incorrect, my booking will still be valid?

There is a bug for sure on prices.

I check MAN-MCO 10 Jan in UC one way and it’s 540k points for 2 adults.
I then search MAN-MCO 10 Jan, TPA-LHR 28 Jan in UC return, and it’s 365k points!! That’s 175k points cheaper!

Any thoughts?

[mitchja]

It's more than likely correct as it's down to dynamic pricing. Once you have been ticketed, you are good to go.

There will probably be less Upper Class availability on the MAN>MCO route compared to TPA>LHR route. VS also may not have released all of the lowest fares yet as well. Airlines don't always release all available fares at the same time.

The lowest Upper Class Z fares will be probably no longer available on the MAN>MCO route more than lilkey down to it being a smaller Upper Class cabin on that route as VS often use the leisure config A350 with just 16 Upper Class seats. The A/C used on the TPA route will always have at least 31 Upper Class seats and hence more availability.

The thing to look at is compare a reward flight with a revenue flight on the same route on the same dates you want to travel on. Look at what the fare code is for the revenue flight (you need to go right through the booking process and then click the 'Fair Conditions' link to see the selected fare codes once you get the final cost). The first letter of the fare is the actual fare code; Z is lowest followed by I, D, C and then J. Each one of those fares will increase in price. As VS sell the lower fares, the number of points required to convert that fare into a reward fare also dramatically increases.

Also worth pointing out that the number of 'seats left at this price' is 100% marketing BS. It's utterly meaningless and should always be ignored. Most if not all airlines now do this.

It's more than likely correct as it's down to dynamic pricing. Once you have been ticketed, you are good to go.

There will probably be less Upper Class availability on the MAN>MCO route compared to TPA>LHR route. VS also may not have released all of the lowest fares yet as well. Airlines don't always release all available fares at the same time.

The lowest Upper Class Z fares will be probably no longer available on the MAN>MCO route more than lilkey down to it being a smaller Upper Class cabin on that route as VS often use the leisure config A350 with just 16 Upper Class seats. The A/C used on the TPA route will always have at least 31 Upper Class seats and hence more availability.

The thing to look at is compare a reward flight with a revenue flight on the same route on the same dates you want to travel on. Look at what the fare code is for the revenue flight (you need to go right through the booking process and then click the 'Fair Conditions' link to see the selected fare codes once you get the final cost). The first letter of the fare is the actual fare code; Z is lowest followed by I, D, C and then J. Each one of those fares will increase in price. As VS sell the lower fares, the number of points required to convert that fare into a reward fare also dramatically increases.

Also worth pointing out that the number of 'seats left at this price' is 100% marketing BS. It's utterly meaningless and should always be ignored. Most if not all airlines now do this.

Thank you. It’s actually for January and MAN-MCO are using the A350 with 44 UC seats. Just checked and it’s still selling at Z fare (half empty cabin judging by seat map) but TPA which is the A333 is I fare. I’ve used quite a lot of points, but was the cheapest way to do it for the dates needed. So happy I was able to get the flights at the reduced price and not what the agents were quoting to change it to. Albeit now I need to wait for a refund.

However is reward seat one way vs return also dynamic priced as in one way now costs more in points than a return?

MAN-MCO UC 2 pax 10th Jan - 570k points
TPA-LHR UC 2 pax 28th Jan - 95k points

So normally that would be 665k points total.

But when I search the exact same flights in a multi city booking instead of one way, it’s 385k points for 2 adults in UC for both flights.

Is this new?

[mitchja]

Absolutely no idea then sorry! Airline fare revenue management is a dark art in itself. I read that DL were trialing the use of AI for parts of their revenue management.

More and more airlines are now also adopting the dynamic pricing structure for reward inventory so it's clearly here to stay.

Airlines are now monetising reward points as much as they possibly can because the whole airline frequent flyer sector is evolving as more people are now seeing the value of these points and also they are shifting their earning from other streams such as credit card spend etc. Gone are the days of just being able to earn FF points from actually flying. You don't even have to set foot onboard an aircraft now to earn FF points.

Honestly, I teach dynamic pricing and I can't work out how these points seats are calculated - there are certainly some dark art algorithms being employed here!

The MAN-MCO and return route seems particularly odd - I tried for weeks to get our return for a date is outside of school hols next year, tracked the fare codes but nothing seemed to make any sense.

Now that I have my return booked from ATL (thanks again) I thought that I'd also add that I've just spent 300 pts and a voucher for 5 of us next year, out PE, back UC, and none of it was earned through flying! Might be the last time however as I am getting tired of the lack of consideration for loyal customers so I may cancel the CC and take my chances with BA!

Honestly, I teach dynamic pricing and I can't work out how these points seats are calculated - there are certainly some dark art algorithms being employed here!

The MAN-MCO and return route seems particularly odd - I tried for weeks to get our return for a date is outside of school hols next year, tracked the fare codes but nothing seemed to make any sense.

Now that I have my return booked from ATL (thanks again) I thought that I'd also add that I've just spent 300 pts and a voucher for 5 of us next year, out PE, back UC, and none of it was earned through flying! Might be the last time however as I am getting tired of the lack of consideration for loyal customers so I may cancel the CC and take my chances with BA!

Yes indeed it’s crazy sometimes these dynamic pricing.
Just booked LHR-MIA for 29k in UC and ATL-MAN at 47.5k in UC for September.
Same day LHR-JFK is starting at 190k+ in UC when there are 5 daily flights and only 2 to MIA.
I’ve seen points drop on flights where a lot of seats already taken, yet points so high on what « appears » to be a pretty much empty cabin.
We are pretty much flexible and normally only book saver seats in UC.
Happy with 153k points in UC return for 2, albeit a 10 hour wait for my easyJet flight back to Geneva.
I guess I’ll book a day use for a MAN airport hotel

Another ticketing chaos story.
Notified yesterday for my SEA-LHR flight with Delta and change of time to an hour and 1/2 later. Not ideal as meant having to change BA flight back to GVA. And since I’ve booked another trip to Florida in September; I have no spare days left.
So I went on chat and enquired about changing to the direct Vs106 flight.
Agent quoted £300 change fee, no mention of any fare difference. Gave my cc details on secure link and said it’d be ticketed within next 5 minutes.
However; no payment taken and when I looked at the flights in my booking, agent had put us in J fare class (which would have been great to earn extra miles).

I thought it was strange as they were still selling I fare class tickets.
So I went on chat again. It took best part of an hour to get sorted.
Agent didn’t mention the fare difference to pay (only change fee) which should have been £1006 per person. And he pretty much f*** up the ticket as he had changed currency from GBP to USD, and now my ticket was at a value of 20k$!!
However, Virgin has been generous in that they have waived the fare difference as I wasn’t advised of it at the time of accepting to pay the change fee. Although now I’m in I class, which means no extra points but at least we 200 TP each flight segment.

I understand mistakes happened but Ever since dynamic pricing was brought in, especially for Reward seats, I feel agents aren’t fully trained up.
On a separate booking it took me 4 attempts to upgrade from economy and premium to Upperclass as agents weren’t quoting correct points/taxes, and even on agent just said « no availability » then ended the chat! But happy that they at least waived the fare difference.

Dark arts aren’t restricted to reward seats alone. We have a full revenue PE return MAN - MCO next month. I’ve been keeping an eye on upgrade prices to UC. A couple of weeks ago there was an aircraft change from the 333 to the 350 (business config). Given the significant increase in UC seats I naively thought the cost of an upgrade on the return leg from MCO might decrease from the £973 that it was prior to the aircraft switch. The price of an upgrade on that single sector is now an eye watering £1,763 per passenger - even though only 8 of the 44 seats available are taken! Make it make sense!