How would you change Flying Club?

So, if you were in charge, what changes would you make and why?

Only one rule - there must be a business rationale. We'd all like loads of extra miles etc, but think about things that might have benefit to the loyal customer, but would also make good business sense.

To start the ball rolling:-

Household accounts - similar in style to Exec Club household accounts, giving flexibility of miles earned, and recognising childrens flights when travelling as families etc.
Rationale - to match a competitors offering in order not to loose loyal customers to that carrier to whom this is an important factor given the limited routes offered by VS. Also, retention of loyal cumstomers who frequently travel with children whom will often spend on baord in the duty free items available etc. Children eventually become fare-paying paassengers in their own right, as well.

Any other thoughts?

Ah time for another what to do with FC thread. I have lots of ideas and there are many previous posts.

What disappoints me is that VS over and over survey people on changes and nothing happens - only last year (or was it the year before ?| ) there was a big VS survey, and so far ziltch.

If VS joins an alliance, I'll guess that will shake the tree, but on past history, don't expect to much.

Apologies if done before - mods, please delete/merge as appropriate. I hadn't seen all those other threads.

Oh I'm sorry - I didn't mean to put a downer on this, it's very valid to raise. The family account suggestion is one that wasn't deeply discussed last time, IIRC.

For me it would be loyalty specials to tiers above red. Giving access to sale fares a day before everyone else. Perhaps a guaranteed once a year miles redemption for golds regardless of redemption availability.

Although both potentially cost VS money, I think having tangible benefits to encourage flyers to trade up a tier level would pay off in extra bookings.

How about variable upgrade redemptions that would vary the miles required depending on the fare bucket so a W might be 10k miles but a K 40k miles to get into UC plus a nomimal £100 rather than the complicated system they have now.

No worries Slinky - I still consider myself new here, and am a little sensitive to the house etiquette!

McMD - those are excellent, I also feel that the fact that an FC member might get many rewards, they more often than not take their families along, so reward flights etc often bring additional business.

Although only humble AG (only travel for leisure, no business trips), I can well see that providing additional loyalty bonuses would be a good customer retension move - especially for AU as they are clearly the highest spending customers.

[Neil]

Always interesting to hear thoughts on this and who knows maybe VS will read and take notice of the best ideas this time :w

How about variable upgrade redemptions that would vary the miles required depending on the fare bucket so a W might be 10k miles but a K 40k miles to get into UC plus a nomimal £100 rather than the complicated system they have now.

I would hate it if MFU came with a fee as well - that would be something that just goes up over time (note AA charge your $500 one way to use miles to upgrade to business on some fare codes :0 ).

Slinky

Maybe I may have worded it wrong but the fee would replace having to pay the difference from a K into the upgradable bucket and wouldnlt apply to the top two buckets. Though maybe the miles could be incrased and the fee dropped?

THere would also be a graded system for offering the miles upgrades so, if available, for a W a week before but a K only at say OLCI with anything goes at the desk.

Tonty, I think that'd be a great idea in principle.

Do you think that measure would simplify the frulebook a little?

My experiecne so far, of trying to work out best options, ifs and buts and whatifs, is that the full set of options, restrictions, cans and can'ts is so complicated that around 50#% of the FC team on the phone don't fully understand it either! They frequently need to remind themselves of certain aspects of the ts & cs.

Your suggestion, it seems to me, actually simplifies certain aspects?

I only travel for Leisure, a couple of times a year, but I would agree that it needs simpifying.

Miles and tier points for example. If you book an Economy - no matter what code you get - should be X miles and X tier points. And on up the cabins.
None of this messing with 50%, 70%, no points etc which is confusing at the best of times.

[Neil]

I only travel for Leisure, a couple of times a year, but I would agree that it needs simpifying.

Miles and tier points for example. If you book an Economy - no matter what code you get - should be X miles and X tier points. And on up the cabins.
None of this messing with 50%, 70%, no points etc which is confusing at the best of times.

I disagree on that. They only changed it fairly recently to the current rules and I think they are much more fair.

The current rules give miles based more on how much your ticket cost, rather than the class of travel. I think it is right that a fully flexible Y ticket should earn only slightly miles as a discounted K PE ticket as the cost is very similar.

On the same basis, why should someone on an O class econ fare who maybe paid £400 get the same miles as someone on a Y class econ fare, when they probably paid £1200.

I think TP's are a different matter and they have uniformed them to class of travel.

Perhaps what they should've done is a Tesco style change of earnings. So that the standard economy earn was half what it used to be and with more expensive codes earning 200% of base miles! Hearts and minds ...

I disagree on that. They only changed it fairly recently to the current rules and I think they are much more fair.

The current rules give miles based more on how much your ticket cost, rather than the class of travel. I think it is right that a fully flexible Y ticket should earn only slightly miles as a discounted K PE ticket as the cost is very similar.

On the same basis, why should someone on an O class econ fare who maybe paid £400 get the same miles as someone on a Y class econ fare, when they probably paid £1200.

I think TP's are a different matter and they have uniformed them to class of travel.

Ooops, with one major exception...unless your backside is under 12 years old, in which case nothing, £300 on a Y seat or £8.5K on flexi UC, same result...

Sorry couldn't resist it..

Thanks NH, knew you'd join in on that one!

I have to disagree. Why punish someone because they managed to get a cheaper seat? I book a flight 6 months in advance, manage a cheaper seat, yet someone comes along at the last minute and gets rewarded for it, yes they pay more but that's what you get for booking last minute.
Everyone is travelling the same distance - therefore should get the same miles. As it stands the early booker is being disadvantaged - even though VA will have had their money for a lot longer.
I suppose to some people the only solution to this would be to have a uniform fare - take all the buckets out of the equation. EC costs X, PE costs Y, UC costs C - everyone pays exactly the same as everyone else in their class.

[Neil]

I have to disagree. Why punish someone because they managed to get a cheaper seat? I book a flight 6 months in advance, manage a cheaper seat, yet someone comes along at the last minute and gets rewarded for it, yes they pay more but that's what you get for booking last minute.
Everyone is travelling the same distance - therefore should get the same miles. As it stands the early booker is being disadvantaged - even though VA will have had their money for a lot longer.
I suppose to some people the only solution to this would be to have a uniform fare - take all the buckets out of the equation. EC costs X, PE costs Y, UC costs C - everyone pays exactly the same as everyone else in their class.

People who buy full fare codes don't just buy at the last minute though. The whole point of the higher fare codes is they have less restrictions, not when they are bought and the fact the airlines sells them enables them to also offer the cheap fare codes.

If you had a uniformed price you would end up paying a lot more, you aren't being disadvantaged, if you want more miles then buy a higher fare code from the outset, you can't expect to pay low/cheap fares yet still get the extra benefits of the higher fare codes.



You are

Add a benefit to Silver that actually makes it worth having such as the ability to pay for entry into the Clubhouse.

The use of PE check in, 25% bonus miles and an upgrade on the Heathrow/Gatwick express is hardly exciting.

-Steve

Tonty, I think that'd be a great idea in principle.

Do you think that measure would simplify the frulebook a little?

My experiecne so far, of trying to work out best options, ifs and buts and whatifs, is that the full set of options, restrictions, cans and can'ts is so complicated that around 50#% of the FC team on the phone don't fully understand it either! They frequently need to remind themselves of certain aspects of the ts & cs.

Your suggestion, it seems to me, actually simplifies certain aspects?

I think VS (and all airlines really + the train companies too) have made this over complicated for their customers and themselves.

Perhaps they need to reuduce the fare buckets in each class to say 3 - restricted, a bit flexible and very flexible

I guess most people would buy the restricted because they want cheap and arn't bothered by miles, points and upgrades (but who wont turn them down). Then there are people (say like majority of us on here) who would buy the little bix flexible ticket which would get more miles, points and the opportunities for miles upgrades.

Add a benefit to Silver that actually makes it worth having such as the ability to pay for entry into the Clubhouse.

The use of PE check in, 25% bonus miles and an upgrade on the Heathrow/Gatwick express is hardly exciting.

-Steve

True but Silver is too easy to obtain to deliver anything worthwhile.

I think there needs to be better benefits to those who are Au and Ag and traveling in upper, all you get is some more miles, not much else (not complaining about more miles tho )

My only comment about earning miles and points is that most companies will not allow you to choose a higher fare just so that you earn miles/points. So, I would hate to see a system where you pay extra before you earn any miles/points.

Same for upgrades, I don't mind using miles but I can't expense the cost or pay several hundred pound to upgrade (if it was a leisure flight it would be different)

[RichardMannion]

This old chestnut again - as Slinky has commented, I've lost count the number of times good robust feedback has been provided or surveys completed and zero visible change.

There is a very large picture at play here, as to who are you targeting with your 'frequent' flyer program. I say it in that way as the realtive ease to get both silver and gold hardly quantifies a frequent flyer.

VS have for over a decade now gone for the lets encompass every customer approach which has consequences down the line when you are trying to look after your actual frequent flyers. I remember in 99 when I first joined Freeway, you had to do a segment in PE or UC, or 3 returns in one year in Economy before they even let you be a member (which was in line with what BA is as such). Then it all got changed and now everyone is member as such, with a large number that are Silver that may only fly once a year or even less if they are accruing via partner TP's. Silver is only useful if you fly in Economy, just like Gold is only really useful if you fly in Economy or Premium. If you are an Upper Class customer, then there is no real benefit of Gold aside from the additional miles.

The companion voucher is awful forcing you to buy a full or high category fare code to use it (just like trying to use miles to upgrade), compared to BA where you can upgrade from practically all fares - albeit only class but that is fair; and the companion is done on you mileage ticket.

For Gold's you should hold off a supply of reward inventory just for them, or do a kind-of if there is a K or Z available for sale, you can convert it to a U or a G to redeem against. Or, allow Gold's the ability to upgrade one class only using standard miles from any fare bucket.

Ability to buy additional entrance for Clubhouse access or Revivals access using miles, or send some out each year instead of the companion ticket for renewing each year.

Let's not forget that in real terms, BA Silver is equivalent to VS Gold. VS Silver is some pseudo elite tier. BA's programme has always been aimed really at those that fly in the premium cabins. VS should also enforce a minimum number of sectors on VS metal each year for each tier to clear out some of the stale members, say 2 for Silver and 4 for Gold?

I think the FC should provide additional incentives to keep on using VS even after you reach 30 Tier points. After all those customers have demonstrated themselves to be the most loyal already.

It has been mentioned a few times on the forum, that loyalty wanes a little if you have renewed Au after 6 months. I'm not sure what else could be provided (Suggestions welcome). There is a Clubhouse voucher spoken of (at 50 or 60) but that's not much use to someone who is already Au. How about a full Cowshed treatment, an any bucket upgrade voucher, or a visit to the flight deck.

And it would be great to make the Au renewal companion ticket a bit more useful by dropping the high bucket requirement. A benefit is not a benefit if most people can't use it. It becomes classed as an irritation

As a leisure passenger, I have to agree with the comments about no miles for kids flights. VA (together with HM Government through the ever increasing taxes but that's a different argument!) have had a fair amount of my hard earned cash over the last few years as we take an annual trip to Florida to see our friends who moved there.

As I still have to pay 75% (I think) of the cost of an adult fare for each child, why shouldn't that child be able to earn miles at the same 75% of the adult fare. It's like Tesco giving clubcard points if you bought adult clothing there but not for any kids clothes.