Flying with Pets

Hi there.

Does anyone here have any experience with flying a pet from the states into the UK and back on VS?

I've recently got a dog, it's got service dog status here in the states and so flying is not an issue. I've looked into it online and it seems it's possible. Just wondering is it's a lengthy process, or straight forward. Hoping someone has had experience of this and can share with me.

Thanks

We are in a similar situation.

I spoke with Virgin and they will ONLY accept service animals trained by certain accredited training facilities otherwise they have to fly as cargo under the PETS program.

This is the text of their email to us -

As Virgin Atlantic are a UK based airline we are governed by the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) we therefore have different rules to US based airlines who are governed by the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration). For assistance dogs to travel in the cabin with Virgin Atlantic they are required to be trained by an accredited charity on the following 'Assistance Dog International' website http://www.assistancedogsinternational. ... try.php#US. If the assistance dog is trained by a registered charity on this list then all the relevant paper work would need to be sent to the Animal Reception Centre Tel: 0208 745 7894, Fax: 0208 759 3477 to verify the animal fulfils the correct criteria.

Please see a link to the Virgin Atlantic website to more information about travelling with assistance dogs.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/tr ... -dogs.html

If your dog has not been trained by an accredited charity then he/she may be able to travel using our Pets Travel Scheme, this would mean however that your dog will need to travel within the hold and cannot accompany you in the cabin.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/tr ... -pets.html

I hope you find the above information useful. Please advise at your earliest convenience which charity had trained your dog so we can ensure the correct procedure is followed.

And a follow up reply to me advising them that there is NO requirement for accredited training or registration in the USA -

Virgin Atlantic only allow service dogs to travel in the cabin if they have been trained by a school or charity who are accredited to the Assistance dogs International organisation.

As my colleagues email below advises, the criteria for service animals to travel in the cabin on a UK and US carriers differs. If your wife’s service animal has not been trained by an accredited school or charity then she will not be able to travel with her service animal in the cabin on a UK carrier however her service animal may be able to travel in the cabin on a flight which is operated by a US carrier. We would advise you to check with each carrier individually to check with them on their requirements.

W.

Thanks so much for this. I have to say I've never once flown VS and witnessed a dog in the cabin, and that's some 20 years of flying VS.

I tried getting through to the PETS office yesterday just to get a quote for the dog to fly in the hold.. it rang out to answerphone, will try again today.

Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Thanks for this, but the user doesn't appear to exist.

Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Thanks for this, but the user doesn't appear to exist.

He was active a while ago and posted some interesting articles about flying with a disability and on occasion a service dog.

Try a search of his posts or using key words like 'disability' and ''dog'. You'll get some not relevant articled but IIRC his posts were very good.

]Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Thanks for this, but the user doesn't appear to exist.[/quote]

[/quote]
He was on-line a week ago.


This is the website for hounds for heroes
https://houndsforheroes.com/what-we-do/ ... en-parton/.

DL

[honey lamb]

Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Thanks for this, but the user doesn't appear to exist.

It's cloudscudder not coloudscudder.

Not sure if he could help but one of the sites members (coloudscudder) travels frequently with his service dog he may be able to offer some advice

Thanks for this, but the user doesn't appear to exist.

It's cloudscudder not coloudscudder.

thanks

Morning all

successful communications have been established

regards

Cloudscudder

Hi all,

the rules and regulation have seriously tightened with regards to travel with assistance dogs and rightly so, to protect not only the safety of the disabled person and their dog but all so their fellow passengers.

My personnel advice is as follows .... first thing to do is to contact your service dog school which provided you with your assistance dog and establish what their rules and protocols are with regards to overseas travel with one of their dogs
At Hounds for Heroes we don't allow overseas travel if the dog and client have been matched for less than a year and then approval on a case by case basis. Establish if your school is a member/ candidate member of ADI (assistance dogs international)destination countries will have an approved list.
The school, if all well and in agreement, will advise you on what is appropriate and is an approved flying harness which is required for the dog to have fitted once on the aircraft

I always remind assistance dog partnerships that it is a lead and not hand cuffs between them and the dog, the most important question to ask is does the dog really need to accompany you if you have a human helper for the duration of the visit? It is obviously great to share your new friend and helper off to family members but equally allowing the dog a "holiday" whilst you are away is not such a bad thing in all honesty.

Things can and do go wrong with regards to air travel in the normal world, long delays, diversions etc and this can be very distressful for both dog and their disabled human partners

One of my major issues experienced is importing the food that my dog eats, in some countries not an issue in others it is totally banned

Only you can be the best judge of whether your dog will cope with the whole experience, if you are newly partnered I would wait till the relationship is absolutely rock solid. 34,000ft up half way across the pond is not the place to discover that your faithful companion is not coping with the experience

A couple of further points...

- a service dog is NOT a pet, nor is an emotional support dog a service dog.
- the PETS scheme whilst great for pets is NOT suitable for a service dog. A service dog 'handler' requires the dog with them 24/7 due to their disability.
- the PETS scheme means the 'handler' is separated from their dog for the flight and for [potentially] 2/3 days after arrival in the UK whilst rabies status is confirmed. Would it be acceptable to keep someones' wheelchair from them for the same period?

Given that VA will not recognize my wife's dog due to his trainer not being accredited by a certain body they will not get our business again, (she has flown once with them prior to requiring her dog), I have flown dozens of times with them to and from from the USA to the UK and tend to be loyal to good service.

What happens with code shares? If I book with (eg) Delta who are legally obliged to carry her dog in the cabin but VA operate that flight can they turn us away?

Also, FYI it doesn't have to be a dog under US law, any trained animal has the status, albeit technically it is the disabled person that has the rights not the 'aid'.

Unfortunately some abuse the ADA and muddy the waters for those with a genuine need...

PW

Given that VA will not recognize my wife's dog due to his trainer not being accredited by a certain body they will not get our business again, (she has flown once with them prior to requiring her dog), I have flown dozens of times with them to and from from the USA to the UK and tend to be loyal to good service.

But the issue is not with VS, surely, it is with the CAA and would be applicable to any UK based carried. Or is it the case that VS retain their own specific list of accredited trainers?

BA has the same policy as VS travelling with assistance dogs

BA also states

Dogs providing any other service, such as emotional support, are not recognised as assistance dogs by the DEFRA as they will not have been trained to meet the criteria set by ADI. They should therefore be booked as a domestic pet and will travel in the hold.

I would assume that DEFRA obtained the necessary exclusions to the Disability Discrimination Act for this. If only to protect themselves from being sued.

This is all super helpful and special thanks to Cloudscudder.

BA has the same policy as VS travelling with assistance dogs

BA also states

Dogs providing any other service, such as emotional support, are not recognised as assistance dogs by the DEFRA as they will not have been trained to meet the criteria set by ADI. They should therefore be booked as a domestic pet and will travel in the hold.

I would assume that DEFRA obtained the necessary exclusions to the Disability Discrimination Act for this. If only to protect themselves from being sued.

As I stated above there is a recognized difference between a SERVICE dog and an emotional support dog.

Service dogs do not just aid deaf and blind people, they are trained to provide many different tasks.

There is no requirement in the US for any type of approved training or registration.

The law covers the person not their aid, the dog is treated in the law in the same way as a chair or crutches, etc.

My understanding is that the only difference is that the service dog and handler are met at the aircraft and the paperwork completed there immediately rather than subjecting the dog and animal to several days separation.

I would suggest that any airline who discriminates against a disabled person that is covered by law in the country where the booking is made (the USA in this case) is leaving themselves wide open to a significant damages claim.

I have flow VA solely for years hence my comment that it is they who will lose our business from this point on.

PW

BA has the same policy as VS travelling with assistance dogs

BA also states

Dogs providing any other service, such as emotional support, are not recognised as assistance dogs by the DEFRA as they will not have been trained to meet the criteria set by ADI. They should therefore be booked as a domestic pet and will travel in the hold.

I would assume that DEFRA obtained the necessary exclusions to the Disability Discrimination Act for this. If only to protect themselves from being sued.

As I stated above there is a recognized difference between a SERVICE dog and an emotional support dog.

Service dogs do not just aid deaf and blind people, they are trained to provide many different tasks.

There is no requirement in the US for any type of approved training or registration.

The law covers the person not their aid, the dog is treated in the law in the same way as a chair or crutches, etc.

My understanding is that the only difference is that the service dog and handler are met at the aircraft and the paperwork completed there immediately rather than subjecting the dog and animal to several days separation.

I would suggest that any airline who discriminates against a disabled person that is covered by law in the country where the booking is made (the USA in this case) is leaving themselves wide open to a significant damages claim.

I have flow VA solely for years hence my comment that it is they who will lose our business from this point on.

PW

But Virgin and all UK airlines are governed by the CAA.
It's the CAA that defines what a Guide or Assistance dog is:

The definition of a guide dog is one that is trained to provide mobility assistance to a blind or partially sighted person. In the UK a guide dog is trained, assessed and accredited by the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association. Assistance dogs are defined as ones which have been specifically trained to assist a disabled person by one of five charitable organisations registered as members of Assistance Dogs (UK).

Link

The CAA also states that any animal that doesn't meet the above criteria has to be treated as a pet.

This is a legal issue, not a VS policy issue.

Bit like the FAA bans PAX drinking their own alcohol on FAA regulated airlines, but the CAA doesn't. So you can have an AA and BA flight from JFK to LHR, with two different rules on BYO.

BBC this morning showed an article on couple travelling with their Guide Dogs on VS

But Virgin and all UK airlines are governed by the CAA.
It's the CAA that defines what a Guide or Assistance dog is:

The definition of a guide dog is one that is trained to provide mobility assistance to a blind or partially sighted person. In the UK a guide dog is trained, assessed and accredited by the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association. Assistance dogs are defined as ones which have been specifically trained to assist a disabled person by one of five charitable organisations registered as members of Assistance Dogs (UK).

Link

The CAA also states that any animal that doesn't meet the above criteria has to be treated as a pet.

This is a legal issue, not a VS policy issue.

Bit like the FAA bans PAX drinking their own alcohol on FAA regulated airlines, but the CAA doesn't. So you can have an AA and BA flight from JFK to LHR, with two different rules on BYO.

Not sure that GUIDELINES are legally enforceable?

And how could a US dog be trained by a UK organisation?

PW

And how could a US dog be trained by a UK organisation?

PW

That's not what it says in the various quotes and links.

It says something like 'accredited by' which means that the UK guide dogs association recognises the training of the U.S. association as being equivalent to UK training (and vice versa) and the dog can travel in the cabin but that another country might not be accredited and so that dog wound need to go in the hold as a pet.


Edited to add this from PilotWolf's very first post on this

If your dog has not been trained by an accredited charity ...

And how could a US dog be trained by a UK organisation?

PW

That's not what it says in the various quotes and links.

It says something like 'accredited by' which means that the UK guide dogs association recognises the training of the U.S. association as being equivalent to UK training (and vice versa) and the dog can travel in the cabin but that another country might not be accredited and so that dog wound need to go in the hold as a pet.


Edited to add this from PilotWolf's very first post on this

If your dog has not been trained by an accredited charity ...

No, not at all!

The list is specific to what is acceptable and does not cater to what a UK organization accepts and as I have said SERVICE dogs are not limited to guide dogs.

My wife has a service dog that is trained to provide a specific medical need to her, a need that has been certified by a doctor, a dog that provides this need and is trained to provide the required 'service' is not a pet and as such should not be treated as such by any airline that accepts bookings from a country that recognizes this dog's status.

Suppose she was blind but the dog was trained by an organization that isn't in the list? Should she fumble around in the cabin or the UK for 2 or 3 days?

What about the search and rescue dogs that fly into disaster zones? Should people die because they're classified as pets due to being trained by the wrong people?

What about the distress to the dog of being separated from it's handler? My wife's dog becomes very distressed if for example she showers or closes the toilet door with him outside - he knows that when she is out of sight he cannot perform the job he was trained for.

The US accepts the UK drivers license and vice versa but they don't care who taught you to drive.

Pets are allowed into the UK anyway (subject to the criteria of rabies/chipping/etc.), albeit with a delay so why the issue with a service animal? It is the animal reception staff that have the increased work load not the airline; the paperwork is the dog handler's responsibility not the airlines.

Maybe a few 'fake' service dogs will make it through and yes that damages the reputation of the genuine ones but what effect does that have on VA (or any UK airline)?

The law here doesn't prevent business owners (etc.), from requiring the dog to be removed from the premises if it misbehaves. However 99.9% of service dogs are better behaved than the humans...

My employer (a passenger carrying company) requires dogs to be muzzled on board, unfortunately though we have no such requirements for obnoxious/drunk/rude/self-important/loud/****holes humans or children.

I hate to fuel the 'USA sue everyone' culture but I kind of want to book a flight with a UK carrier and turn up at the gate with the wife's service dog and see what happens... Then if they refuse us travel find a pro-bono lawyer who will fight them in court for breaching the ADA because they are on USA 'soil'. I know that a UK aircraft is technically UK territory but I wonder what happens if you break the law of the country that the aircraft is parked in?

PW